Arnab Goswami, Editor-in-chief, TIMES NOW, in conversation with Imran Khan

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Indore, Madhya Pradesh, India, Republic of (Free-Press-Release.com) January 17, 2012 -- Arnab Goswami, Editor-in-chief, TIMES NOW, in conversation with Imran Khan


ARNAB GOSWAMI: I'd like to start off Mr. Imran Khan by asking you the fundamental question that everyone is asking, will there or won't there be an alliance between Imran Khan and Pervez Musharraf?

IMRAN KHAN: Well, I can categorically say that there is no question of alliance with Mr. Musharraf.

ARNAB GOSWAMI: Some in your party have indicated that they could be open to it or has the Musharraf side read too much into it?

IMRAN KHAN: The question is that there was so much harm done during Pervez Musharraf’s president-ship, not least that he broke the Constitution and then manipulated the whole political process, distorted all our institutions in order to stay in power and led us to the insane war. The country has paid the huge price for this – 40,000 people dead, 70 billion loss to the economy, not to mention the devastation in the tribal areas and increasing military polarization, more extremism and then the Lal Masjid affair and the Baluchistan fiasco where Nawab Akhtar Bukti was assassinated and then of course the NRO, where he has imposed Asif Zardari on us - the biggest crook in the country and it’s because of the deal brokered by Condoleeza Rice about which she writes in a book where all the corruption cases were given amnesty and these people were imposed on us. So we people are being run by the criminals today, thanks to the NRO. So all this is Pervez Musharraf legacy, how can we have alliance with him?

ARNAB GOSWAMI: Musharraf certainly has praised you in the past; called you honest, patriotic among other things. Even that won't soften you up a bit?

IMRAN KHAN: See, it’s a personal thing against Pervez Musharraf. This is about where we stand today, the reason why people are rushing to join Tehreek-e-insaaf - The masses are supporting us because they look upon us as a party for change and the reason why they are joining us in hoards – politicians, students, young women, it’s because people are sick of this old politics. People are sick of this current system and corruption, this militancy, this lawlessness and so people are looking for a change and therefore if we ally ourselves with those who represent the past, whether its Nawaz Sharif or Asif Zardari, or I am afraid General Musharraf, we are then confusing our voters our supporters.

ARNAB GOSWAMI: But don't you still think Mr. Khan that you have common rivals in the PPP and the PML-N. Won't it make sense to be an even more serious force to reckon with?

IMRAN KHAN: There are 2 types of politics - one is power politics where you compromise to get into power and the other is the politics for an ideology, for a higher goal which is beyond yourself, you don’t compromise on your goal. You compromise to get to your goal but not on the goal. If I ally myself any of these parties whether it is Gen Musharraf’s League or whether it is Nawaz Sharif PML(N), it means that I am compromising on a goal and the goal is for change, for reforming Pakistan. The moment we align ourselves with them, we are no longer the party for the change. We then confuse the public - What is this party, here it is talking about the change and here it is aligning itself with those parties who brought us to the situation right now.

ARNAB GOSWAMI: You have strong ties with India. If you come to power, will you ensure a clamp down on all anti-India terror activities that emanate out of Pakistani soil?

IMRAN KHAN: The problem with India and Pakistan is Kashmir. Unless we sort out the Kashmir issue, it is going to be difficult for India and Pakistan to move closer. Now just look at Bombay, here was India and Pakistan moving close, we had confidence building measure, we had cricket matches and things were looking very good between the countries. ..Mumbai happened and it was back to square one. Unless strong leadership from both countries sit down and work out a road map from Kashmir, we will not go very far, because this suspicion will remain. As long as Kashmir is burning or as long as it is a live issue, you will have problems curtailing militancy. Now my humble opinion is that you need to strengthen leadership. You need to unite leaderships in both the countries who are not scared of the strong extremist element or the right wing or people who benefit from this conflict. You need strong leadership that can withstand the pressure and then set up the roadmap and that through dialogue of militancy and all activities of secret agencies in both the countries. So whereas Pakistan is complaining about India hand in Baluchistan, India complains about terrorism in India from Pakistan. This suspicion had to disappear, with dialogue we have to decide that whatever our differences are and the Kashmir issue has to be sorted on the negotiating table. But you cannot be pushed in the backburner, it can be simultaneously done. We are talking Kashmir, a road map and similarly we are talking about increasing trade, things that are mutually of benefit to both the countries. Confidence building measure and it has to be by strong leadership which is not scared of the pressure that is coming from those lobbies which do not want peace.

ARNAB GOSWAMI: You are one of the prominent Pakistani politicians who while making your own point on Kashmir are also saying that the idea of promoting militancy has become counterproductive for Pak?

IMRAN KHAN: Well you know I am a politician, I am completely against all sorts of military solutions. I have always believed that the military solutions are counterproductive. Here you see the United States which has the most powerful military machine in the history of the mankind stuck in Afghanistan and it is also debatable whether they have got a long lasting solution in Iraq. Look at the number of people dead, look at the cost over a trillion dollars, the human cost, the cost to the economy of Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan through this insanity and look what they have gained. So just to tell you as a politician and as a pacifist, I am completely against military action and I do not think that the military action or militancy are ever a solution. Like I think that Pakistan has made a big mistake, we should have backed the political struggle of the Kashmiri people and not helped militancy. Similarly India sending an army for 20 years in any country, in any place, I mean Pakistani armies going into tribal areas have not succeeded. We send army into Swat, the moment the army comes back; we are back to square one. The army should only be used for larger political motives. Now what’s happening in Kashmir, you have 700 thousand troops there. It is going to alienate the people further. Similarly, if Pakistan stops militancy and gives the guarantee that there is not going to be any terrorism from the soil of Pakistan which I believe that sovereign credible Pakistan should and at the same time urge India that look, whenever you have such a large military presence, there is going to be a massive human rights abuse. Because, the soldier is not a policeman, he does not know how to deal in the civilian world. Wherever the soldiers go whether it’s in Baluchistan, where we have sent a Pakistan army, it’s been counterproductive, tribal areas – counterproductive. Similarly in India, it is counterproductive to send your armies there, just as in Afghanistan it’s a fail, so let’s sit down, you cannot change your neighbour. Let’s in a civilized way come up with a solution and I believe that strong political figures can come up with a solution because the whole subcontinent is not moving forward.

ARNAB GOSWAMI: If you do take over the leadership are you going to do something concrete in terms of stopping the overt & the covert form of support to groups that bleed on this side of the border?

IMRAN KHAN: I can tell you straight forward the policy of my party will be no terrorism from Pakistani soil, full stop. The policy of our party is within our country we will not allow any militant groups to function. The world has moved on. Whatever the policies of the past were, we have got to review everything. Pakistan is at a cross roads and we've got to decide how are we going to get out of this situation that we've got ourselves in and we are not just talking about security. It’s an economic mess. We have to a new approach to everything including relationship with India, including the whole approach we have to militant groups within our whole country.

ARNAB GOSWAMI: What would you do about the trial which has been going on forever in Pak? What would you do to stop those who spread this vitriol against India openly on the streets of Pak?

IMRAN KHAN: First of all, two things: No. 1, 26/11 was condemned by every section of Pakistani society, so clearly the Pakistani society wasn’t backing 26/11. I can tell you wherever you went in Pakistan there was wide condemnation for it. No. 2, The case is in the Supreme Court. If there is one credible institution in Pakistan they are these courts. Chief justice was ousted twice by Gen Musharraf and twice the people of Pakistan campaigned to get him back in and he is considered the most credible man in Pakistan. So people back him, people trust our judiciary. If our government comes into to power I can tell you one thing, we will insist that whoever was behind 26/11 be brought to justice… Whoever. And so let’s just trust our court and if the government backs the Supreme Court and the prosecution we help the Supreme Court is in our interest it’s in Pakistan's interest that anyone involved in terrorism like that should be brought to justice.

ARNAB GOSWAMI: Nobody can influence the court but would you at least support the idea of a time-bound trial so that there can be a sense of closure, however difficult on this very difficult chapter between India and Pakistan?


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